Brian's+Interview+with+Dr.+Shelton

Interview with Phillip Shelton, Ph.D., Professor Emeriti, Biology University of Virginia’s College at Wise Brian Brown: What is the most serious impact mining has on the environment? Dr. Shelton: The most immediate serious impact is on the site itself where all the vegetation is destroyed, uh covered up, taken away, uh and soils are removed. In some cases, the soils are very thin and there’s not much there and it’s possible to replace it with material that’s, that’s good, uh median for plant growth, but the soil that’s built on site is usually not, uh put back as well or as good as what it might have been before, depending on the site, of course. Then there’s off-site damages, the erosion, the siltation of streams, and the uh, effect on water quality with silt and acid run-off, that sort of thing which occurs not with all mines but some. And then many people would say the worst effect of the strip mining would simply be the visual effect which would leave what looks like a very scarred landscape. Those are immediate effects on-site, off-site, and aesthetic effects. So uh, I think to pick the worst out of that is really a matter of who’s looking. One person, of course, it would be one thing, with another it would be something else. If you’re a salamander, it’s the immediate damage to the site, soil, and the vegetation. If you’re a person driving through the area, it would be the aesthetics. If you were a fisherman, it would be what happened downstream, the silt up the streams. Brian Brown: Ok, and what are the effects of acid rain on our environment? Dr. Shelton: Ok, acid rain uh, effects trees, especially at high altitudes, by interfering with some soil processes. Uh, most research, I think, points toward interference with nitrogen uptake and that’s part of what’s happening with our high altitude forests, like in the Smokies, the Black Mountains, Mount Rogers where they have a lot of dead trees. That’s probably the major effect of acid rain there, and it’s not just rain but acid fog, acid snow, that sort of thing. Uh, on people, the uh, acid rain doesn’t have a direct effect on a person, I mean, it won’t melt your hat or anything unless it got really, really bad. But anything that is made of limestone or limestone-like product like concrete, acid tends to dissolve it and statutes, gravestones and so forth, made out of limestone or marble are susceptible to, uh being dissolved basically. And effects on wildlife would be through the effects on trees. Uh, if you’re talking about terrestrial wildlife, uh the biggest effect of acid rain on wildlife is on fish with, uh lakes and streams that are on, flowing on rocks that don’t have any limestone buffering capacity, and the uh, streams tend to be a little bit acid anyway, and the acid precipitation and deposition in whatever form it is, uh would make it worse. Uh, in places like the Adirondack Mountains up in New York, uh a lot of lakes up there apparently don’t have any fish in them anymore because of this. Brian Brown: Ok, Dr. Shelton, and what are the effects of fly ash on our environment, people and the wildlife? Dr. Shelton: Honestly, I don’t know a whole lot about fly ash. But uh, I don’t have any, any sense that’s, it’s, it’s terribly harmful. In fact, probably a good thing to do with it is to make concrete and that sort of thing and possibly back throw it into old mines. It, uh as far as I know, it’s one of the more benign products of the mining process. Brian Brown: Ok, and what effect does coal mines have on the, coal mine and the machinery used in the coal mine, have on the ozone layer and greenhouse effect? Dr. Shelton: On the ozone layer, mining should have relatively minimal effect. Uh, ozone, if you’re talking about stratospheric ozone, which we would say ozone layer, that’s what I think you’re probably talking about, the ozone, so-called holes over the Artic and Antarctic, uh that’s mainly caused by, uh other compounds that don’t come from a mining operation. Now troposphere ozone, that is down where we live, is bad, but uh that is, mainly comes from uh, a little bit of it comes from combustion, fossil fuels which we do with our automobiles and everything else, so the mining operation wouldn’t add anything particularly to that. But as far as greenhouse gases are concerned, again, there’d be two things. Uh, deforestation, of course, uh results in release of carbon dioxide, especially if you log and then burn, uh you’re putting off a lot of carbon dioxide. And then the burning of any fossil fuel, be it coal, oil, or natural gas, results in release of carbon dioxide back into the atmosphere and that’s the main greenhouse gas we’re concerned about. Uh, it’s often said that methane is a more effective greenhouse gas but the amount of it that’s in the atmosphere is very much smaller than carbon dioxide. So water vapor and carbon dioxide are the two important greenhouse gases and anytime we use fossil fuel, uh anytime we deforest an area we’re reversing the cycle, the process of photo- synthesis which takes carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere and effectively, we’re doing respiration which puts it back in, so it really contributes to carbon dioxide level. That, of course, is well demonstrated to be happening. It’s increased since the uh, uh, measure- ments were first taken on Mauna Loa in Hawaii starting in 1958. The graph shows a steady increase from about 315 parts per million to about, it’s now about 385 and that’s about a 20% increase over, uh, 50 years and it’s continuing to go up and we don’t really know what the overall effect of that will be, because it’s, the weather systems, climate is such as chaotic system that it’s, uh, very difficult to predict what will happen. Something’s going to happen. Things will be different, some places will be wetter, some places will be warmer, some places might be colder, but mostly, it’s going to be warmer. Brian Brown: So this would effect global warming also? Dr. Shelton: Yes, that’s what the greenhouse gases do, trap in more of the incoming radiation, uh, outgoing radiation I should say, is how the greenhouse effect works. Brian Brown: Have you noticed a change in the quality of the environment, in the air, in the last 25 or 30 years? Dr. Shelton: Yeah, we’ve made some progress in cleaning up the air. We’ve got a long way to go, but uh, I think we reached a low point in the late 1960’s when the Cuyahoga River in Ohio caught on fire and I understand that, uh it’s possible to catch fish out of it now, maybe you can swim in it. Here in the mountains, the improvement in reclamation are substantial. Uh, that’s not to say we’re doing everything perfectly by any means, but we’re not just blasting rock over the hills and letting it go into streams willy nilly. So uh, we have made some progress there and uh, we need to make more progress in, in, uh effectiveness of mine reclamation and uh, in forestry. So as the demand for timber gets higher, we do more logging and we don’t have very good controls over that, it’s not as stringent even as mining. Of course it’s not as destructive as mining usually, but it can make a mess as well. Brian Brown: What should mine operators be doing to minimize the effects that mining has on the environment? Dr. Shelton: Well, if you’re talking about surface mining, uh, there are some things that could be done. Uh, one of the problems that directly effects people is that although we have a fairly strict reclamation, uh, set of laws and regulations pursuant to a 1977 federal act, it’s still possible to do quite a bit of damage to peoples houses, legally, by blasting. And there’s always dust, there’s noise, uh, and I think that this tightening up on run-off on erosion is hard to do out in the middle of an operation. but uh, to minimize the uh, run-off in the streams. And then there’s been a lot of research done particularly at the Powell River Project that uh, shows that the uh, way that spoil is handled, uh has a big effect on what can grow back. People used to think you needed to compact it and make it look nice and smooth, but when you do that it’s hard for the roots to get into it, so it’s better to leave it rough. I think the biggest thing would be for the, the research that’s been done to get incorporated into the actual operations. That was the whole thrust of the Powell River Project was to do research that would help people to uh, minimize their impacts. And there’s uh, always a delay between what the research people find out and what people actually do in a mining operation. Brian Brown: Is there anything that the average citizen can do to encourage mine operators to be more responsible in their operations? Dr. Shelton: The average citizen just being aware of what’s happening and if they happen to be neighbors to a mine operator, let them know you’re watching them. Uh, most of us, unless something’s happening in our own backyard, don’t really pay that much attention to it. But then, the mine operator is selling a product that’s demanded by the public. If you really want to minimize the impacts of mining, you’ll turn off your lights when you don’t need them, you’ll keep your house at 68 degrees in wintertime instead of 75, uh, let it go to 78 or 80 degrees in summer- time rather than air conditioning it down to 70. In other words, the uh, only reason anybody mines coal is to sell it and make money, the only reason you sell it to make money is that somebody wants it for some- thing, and the biggest demand for it in this part of the world is to generate electricity. The people who use the electricity are really the ones who are the ultimate source of that demand and that’s the ultimate source of mitigation of the entire operation. If you, if you, for example, there’s a big controversy over building this new power plant in Virginia City and the reason the power plant is being proposed is that there’s a big demand and projected increased demand for electricity and that demand comes from people. That’s the average citizen, that’s where it comes back home to roost. The mine operator, or company, that’s going to build the generator, they’re simply responding to a demand. So reducing the use, the end use of the resource would be the best way to mitigate the problem. The same goes for trash, we have lots of trash around. Your average citizen is the one who produces trash, who buys their meat packed in a styrofoam container, and that styrofoam container has to be put in a landfill and will be there for millenia. So the problem is us, all of us, and how we impact the environment. Brian Brown: Can the damage that’s been done to the environment be undone in any way, fashion, or form? Dr. Shelton: Uh, that depends on the time frame you’re talking about. I tend to think in global and geological terms, geological time and terms, and I think back to uh, 15,000 years ago when there was glacial ice over half of Ohio and that half of Ohio is just as green as the other half now. But it’s had 10,000 years to recover and 10,000 years from now these hills will probably look a whole lot like they did, or would, if there weren’t any humans here. They’d look a whole lot like they did before we got here. But uh, on a more practical scale, within uh, years or decades, uh, we’ve made a lot of progress in, in undoing that damage. Uh, streams are a lot clearer than they used to be, the air’s clearer, uh but there’s still a lot more we can do. But it’s pretty difficult to remove the top of a mountain and not say that it’s damaged, but again, damage is in the eye of the beholder. Some people think if you look at a, at a mountaintop that’s been removed and it’s put money in their pocket, it’s beautiful. If it’s, it didn’t put money in your pocket, and you don’t like to look at it, then it’s ugly and maybe you’d say it can’t be repaired. But it’s amazing, if you handle the spoil correctly, and plan and go by the guidelines that are in the regulations, and if we can incorporate even more of the regulations that are into the regulations and ‘ into practice what the research people have found out, we can keep these hills green. Brian Brown: Is there anything else that you would like to add that hasn’t been said yet? Dr. Shelton: I think you had a comprehensive set of questions. I don’t think there’s anything right off that uh, that I would like to add to it. Brian Brown: Ok, I’d like to thank you. Dr. Shelton: Ok.